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Saturday, November 8, 2008

WRONG INTERPRETATION OF DEFENCE OFFICER PAY SCALES BY SERVICE OFFICERS/FEW BLOGS

It has been observed that there is a wrong interpretation of edge in the pay scale of Defence Officers by few service Officers and by few blogs. It is pertinent to mention that CPMF / CPOs are always having civilian pay scales and thus indirect relativity always existed between CPMF / CPOs rank structure and of that of Defence Services Officers rank structure. The exact history of this edge is as follows :-

First Pay Commission

1. A post war pay committee was constituted after first pay commission.

2. It abolished few war related allowances and merged remaining with the pay.

3. It also established broad relativity of Defence Service Officers with class central services and IPS.

4. These recommendations was implemented w.e.f 01 Jul 1947.

Second Pay Commission

1. Raghuramaiah Committee Report on Defence Forces was given in 1960 after Second Pay Commission. The revision made by this committee broadly followed second pay commission and accepted parallal between defence officers and class I services and IPS

Third Pay Commission

1. The Third Pay Commission was the first to give recommendation on Defence Services pay scales. The committee stated that relativity exists between Police and Defence and not between and IAS and Defence Services on pay scales.

2. The pay commission discontinued the Special Disturbance Allowance granted in 1950 as a special identity and merged this allowance with the pay scale of Defence Services. That's how the slight edge in pay scale of Defence Serivce officers over other serivce started.

Fourth Pay Commission

As requested by Defence Services the pay commission recommend a running pay scale upto Brigadier / equivalent and rank pay. The commission kept Major General in SAG pay scale of 5900-6700

Fifth Pay Commission

The service headquarters recommended two running pay scales
(a) Till the post of Colonel
(b) Brigadier to Lt. General
The pay commission did not agree to the running pay scale and recommended different pay scale for each rank with slight edge and rank pay.

What was this edge ?

Special Disturbance Allowance merged with the basic pay was this edge. This was not increase in the status but only monetary compensation to the hardship of Military life.

(a) This edge was Rs. 50/- to 300/- in various ranks of Service Officers in Third Pay Commission
(b) Rs. 100/- + Rank pay of various ranks by Fourth Pay Commission
(c) Rs. 250/- + Rank Pay by Fifth Pay Commission
(d) The Sixth Pay Commission maintained this edge by recommending MSP of Rs. 6000/- to Officers as an allowance and removed the edge in the Basic Pay Scale which was merged earlier by Third Pay Commission (merger of Special Disturbance Allowance in basic pay).

In last 35 years, since Third Pay Commission Defence Sservice Officers mistook this edge as increase in their status and started compairing various officers rank with one to two civil ranks. When the Sixth Pay Commission, as requested by Service Headquarters, placed again the Service Officers in their equivallent civil pay scales the service officers mistook it with lowering of status which was not the case.

I have given the complete history of this edge it is upto various service officers / CPMFs / CPOs / Civil Officers to judge this history. Moreover, most of the pay commissions are authored by prominent judges and we are too small to judge their decisions.

35 comments:

Anonymous said...

Dear BP,
What a detail on the edge in pay scale given to Defence officers.Any service officer now will fall flat on the claim of reduction in status.No change is required in LTCol pay band.

Wg Cdr said...

Dear Mr BP Singh,
Your views, knowledge and respect for the armed forces are as myopic as they can get. You have no knowledge what so ever at all about the armed forces. You obviosly have no clue about the command structure in IAF and IN where the combat units/sqns/ships are commanded by Lt Col equivalents. Are you even aware that all front line fighter, helicopter, missile, radar and most transport sqns are commanded by Wg Cdrs (ever heard of that rank) in the IAF. Most combat ships albiet a few are commnded by Commanders (another rank that you may possibly not have heard of) in the IN. Your venom in all the forums you visit is indicative of your lack of knowledge and your eternal quest to match the offrs from the armed forces. We all are aware of the entry parameters for CPO's (reservation, sifarish, etc) and so are you. Your training standards, conduct and intellect are abysmal especially in your officer cadre (including senior ranks) and are no match to even a fresh armed forces officer straight out of IMA/AFA/NA. As such your mettle in handling Internal Security situations in the country needs no mention. You actually ought to be thankful to the Armed Forces for holding your hand and saving you the embarrassment of your inadequacies and failures being highlighted to the nation. Not only are your bosses incapable of controlling the situations handed to them (IG CRPF- Srinagar aug 08) they find no shame running to the nearest army formation for help to save their slimy skins. Please do your job and leave the Armed Forces alone. We are sick and tired of stepping in to cover your failures time and again. May wise sense prevail on your tribe.

Anonymous said...

Dear BP Sir,
Were is now doubt left that LTCol/Commanders are no way near to Commandant, they are without doubt not even equals to Second-in-command/Commandant(junior grade). Our time has come,
Long live CPOs/CPMF

Anonymous said...

Dear Wg Cdr,
Your all details of commanding a Air Sqd, does not hold any value.These Aircrafts were flown by PBOR about 50-60 years back and what a ship Commanded by Naval Captain was commanded by Ltcdr in USSR. The fact remains that why govt should pay for a work to a officer which can be done by PBOR.No wonder shortage of officer ,you do this work and are asking for salary of Director in civil.

danny said...

@BP Singh

you have just read isolated portions of VI CPC report and are writing trash without veryfying facts from records. You would not have written what you have in case you had read closely read what is contained in VI CPC report. Let us see if you can find the jugglery of words in VI CPC report.

Let me try and make you understand basics of SDA. SDA prior to 3rd CPC was Rs 45 pm for all officers upto the rank of Brig. the 3rd CPC merged it and provided an edge of Rs 50 only at 2nd Lt level only (JTS for civil services) after that if you compare the scales you will find SDA edge has not been given at other levels. for example the STS scale for civil services under 2nd CPC and III CPC recommendation thereon were:

PRE III CPC 740-1300
III CPC RECOMMENDATION 1100-1600,
1200-1700 (STS IPS)

Similar scales of Armed Forces for Captain were: -
PRE III CPC 750-990
III CPC RECOMMENDATION 1020-1450
GOVERNMENT APPROVED 1100-1550

The case for all other ranks is also similar. So where is the SDA edge are you talking about. If you see the scales you will realise that III CPC gave edge only at JTS level. Please get your facts in order first. Do not shoot what you hear from bureaucrats. They are generally misleading. Major Navdeep has proved the false hoods of even VI CPC in his blog which is visited by you regularly. please do some research and then comment.

Bring out some hard facts and their analysis. We shall discuss then.

Seeing your comments one Haryanvi saying comes to mind.

"Ghori ne Tehnal Jaraya, Meendhki ne bhi pair uthaya."

which means , 'when the frog saw horse getting his horseshoe fixed, he also lifted his leg for a frogshoe. God Bless you with whatever you are lacking in.

Anonymous said...

BP Singh ji tussi great ho.

Anonymous said...

bp singh pagal ho gaya hai

Wg Cdr said...

@ anon

Somehow you guys are full of contradictions in your dim wit response and display a complete lack of knowledge of the defence forces. Your lack of intelligence and intellect does not derserve a response coz obviosly one will have to start teaching you the basics and then also you are not likely to understand much.

Wg Cdr said...

The comment is for anon @ 12:22 am on 08 Nov 08.

Anonymous said...

BP Singh Ji,
To tussi Coast Guards se ho,tabhi itna smuggling hota hai coastline se.

Anonymous said...

Dear Wg Cdr,
Your all details of commanding a Air Sqd, does not hold any value.These Aircrafts were flown by PBOR about 50-60 years back and what a ship Commanded by Naval Captain was commanded by Ltcdr in USSR. The fact remains that why govt should pay for a work to a officer which can be done by PBOR.No wonder shortage of officer ,you do this work and are asking for salary of Director in civil.

MY GOD WHAT AN ARGUMENT ! FOR YOU TECHNOLOGY AND SOFISTICATION STOPPED 60 YEARS BACK. JUST COMPARE INSTRUMENTS IN COCKPIT WITH YOUR STAGNANT MIND !

Wg Cdr said...

@ anon 10 Nov 08.
One really can't blame the CPO personnel for their lack of knowledge on military and technological advances in military warfare. When all that they have ever seen are .303 rifles and lathis and motorboats and camels they can never imagine or understand terms like electronic warfare, stealth technology, air superiority fighters etc. They are merely voicing their opinion based on what they have seen. They can not imagine that the cost of one fighter ac is more than the entire budget for a few of their organisations. CPO's are still many generations behind even when compared to the avg civilian in the civvy street.

Anonymous said...

DEAR ANON,
AEROPLANES IN INDIAN AIR FORCE WERE ALWAYS FLOWN BY OFFICERS . TALKING OF PBORS IT IS SGTS WHO MANAGE PARA MILITARY/BORDER FORCES ABROAD . HOWEVER TO GIVE DIGNITY THE SUPERVISORY LEVEL WAS RAISED TO DY/ASST COMMDNTS IN INDIAN CONTEXT.ALSO PLS COMPARE ENTRY PROCEDURE WHEN TALKING OF GRADES BETWEEN ARMED FORCES AND CPOS.IN ARMED FORCES STAFF COLLEGES/DEF COLLEGES, WHICH HAVE IAS/IFS IPS OFFRS ATTENDING, ENHANCE QLFNS.RECENTLY IAF DID JT EX WITH USAF.DO U HAVE ANY COMPARATIVE STDS IN CPOS.( PLS DONT TALK OF BSF AND BANGLADESHIS MAKING MONEY WHILE ALLOWING ILLEGAL MIGRANTS FROM BANGLADESH ). LASTLY TALKING OF FLYING, PILOTS GET PAID IN SEVERAL LACS OUTSIDE. HOW MUCH WILL A CPO/COMMNDNT GET ???

Anonymous said...

It appears that Army officers are not ready to hear any other argument.No way they can move any where if they behave like this

Anonymous said...

Dear BP,
Going by your details in this blog,it appears there is no case for LTCols,it is very clear that the edge was the allowance,and now it is MSP

Anonymous said...

Dear BP,
Can yau please put up details of al pay scales which were benefited with the merger of SDA

B P SINGH said...

Dear Wg Cdr,
With due respect to Indian Air
Force and IN Officers and men.There is no doubt about the capabilities of the two Defence Forces.They can operate best of the Aircrafts and Sail the mighty Naval War Ships.Well that is the prime duty for which officer and men joined these forces and were trained for that by the GoI at national expense.
Reservations in various Depts are due to GOI policies and depts does not have any control over it.Training of each dept is upto the requirement of each organisation.One should not consider him self superior if trained in heavy weapons ,well that is requirement of being in military service.
The training of officers of various departments are neither inferior nor superior. Each department whether it is Militory or other Technical nature or for that matter CPO's have their own requirements. Stating that a young officers from IMA has more knowledge than IG is nothing more than wrong notion.

All government departments are dependent on each other for one or other requirements thats how a nation is made and progress accordingly.

I had put facts from pay commission reports and it is available to any body for facts verifications. There is no intention to speak for or against any department. I would request you to come up with fact and figures to counter my claim.

INDIAN HEART said...

Defence services requested for civilian equivalent to SCPC.
The SCPC formulated common pay scales both for Defence and civilians as per 3/4/5 cpc.
Now what they are cripping for

Coast Guard officer said...

Dear Loverboy,
Hope by this time you must had found out that 2005 commander is equivalent to Commandant(Junior Grade) and not to Commandant. This is letter issued by NHQ and not by CGHQ.
Earlier CG had only one type of commandant which was in lower scale hence few comdt served as xo under naval cdrs,in that also difference of seniority was maintained.
In 1994 there was no CG DIG, it was only re-employed commodores in the ranks of DIG ,if you have this respect for Ex naval officers, then the old saying of gangway friendship is true.

Anonymous said...

Dear BP,
Since last four days I thought that I will not react on your blog, however on second thought I changed my views, due to the fact that If we are not reacting you may consider that you are correct.Well Mr BP Singh I shall clearly indicate that Army will never be equated with any PMF or CPOs or what so ever you call youer self.
Pay scales of Commandants may be same as Col and that of Ltcol to others but they can never be equavated in any level on prof fronts.

Anonymous said...

BP Singh Ji,
Tussi aur kuchh kyon nahi likh rahe ho?
Kuchh likho na,tussi kamaal ke likhte ho.

Anonymous said...

One thing is very clear after meeting between Mrs Nath (Sec Exp) and three service Heads that She will not anoy PMF.She stated very clearly that PMF have objected to giving of PB-4 to Ltcols.
So PB-4 at all if comes will come along by extending same to Second-in-command also

Anonymous said...

why dont MOD changes the rank Ltcol to LtMaj and this rank can be one step junior to Director and all problems are over.

Anonymous said...

No way we are happy with our ranks

Anonymous said...

Dear BP,
Why you cannot keep your self away from our problem.Army knows what is good and what not.

Anonymous said...

What a rank Mr BP SINGH is there any country having this rank and what badges you thought for this rank

Anonymous said...

saale chewtiye. budda pagal ho gaya hai

Harry said...

@ Dear Mr BP Singh

Well...I don't exactly understand what do you gain by removing Lt Col rank and instead substituting it with another one and calling it Lt Maj albeit at 11 years of service? Presumably it will be a senior rank to existing Maj but then by the name of it, this one appears to be junior ( like Lt Col is junior to Col and ditto for Lt Gen and Gen). Better would be to remove Lt and Lt Col ranks and yes count the training period in service as it is done for all other services. Lt col rank should be there only for those officers(and they unfortunately constitute vast majority i.e more than 60% of cadre!) who miss their selection board for Full Col rank. And then they should be promoted by time scale to Col rank in about 18 years service! Selection grade Cols should reach Col's rank in 14 years. And Brig rank should be reached in 20 years by selection(i.e 25% of selection grade Cols)
and in about 25 years for those who dont make it because of fewer vacancies (75% of Selection Grade cols). Similarly Maj Gen rank in 24 years and Lt Gen in 28. For this suitable vacancies need to be identified and upgraded. This sort of cadre review should be carried out in a time bound manner (2 years is reasonable methinks!). This should help ease the problems of delayed promotions and fewer avenues for permanently commissioned officers. And yes, it goes without saying that there should be a liberal exit policy for those who have had enough!

B P SINGH said...

Dear harry,
Promotion to Col in 18 years is a good idea and thus all officers can get into PB-4 without much annoyance to our IAS brothers.
However promotion to Col in 14 years may not find favour in Govt.
My aim in suggestion of this new rank is to open a new window /a think tank to solve the existing problem
Govt have till date not agreed to Ltcol in PB-4, thus the new rank can kill the two birds with single stone. Moreover the Defence equivalance of Jt Director can be this rank,we can give away LTCol rank altogether.

B P SINGH said...

Dear Anony@4:40
I am not removing your remarks, as same strengthens my views that very few among existing officers' strength can write few correct lines.I will be more happy if you can put up facts and figures to contradict my claim.

Harry said...

@ Dear Mr BP Singh

Much as I appreciate you agreeing to my suggestion of Col rank by time scale to those officers (again I emphasise more than 60 % of cadre strength)who have missed their selection board in 18 years service,remember IAS is JS at 16 years (incl training) and considers himself equal to Maj Gen with 33-34 years of service9excl training), I wonder what is the problem in promoting Selection Grade Col in 14 years (IAS directors reach this rank in around 12 years, again training incl. And why do you want Armed Forces to officially downgrade its Lt Col rank to Lt Maj by calling another name? This suggestion is baffling, to say the least.

Harry said...

...in continuation of my earlier post..

If IAS director can reach this level in 12 years (with training period counted) what's the harm in Lt Cols making it to PB4 in 13 years (excl training period of 1/1.5 years depending upon whether he is ex-NDA or ex-IMA officer).

And also a cadre of less than 4600 officers having approx 215 Secretary level posts and a cadre of more than 55000 officers having less than 20 Secretary level posts. this this NOT convey the whole picture by itself that andha baante revdi...Pl judge for urself!

Wg Cdr said...

@
Dear Mr BP Singh,

Just heard that the BSF guys abandoned a polling station in Poonch sector in the first round of polling in J&K and ADGP CRPF was running around in the neighbouring sector recently trying to motivate the CPO's to hold ground while on polling duties. Can you recollect even one such incident involving the Indian Army during past J&K elections when militancy was at its peak. Much as you may like to equate your self with the armed forces I am sorry to say that the CPO leadership has a long way to go and compare itself with the armed forces officers. Please accept the fact that every person who wears blue collar dogs and a cols rank has not been granted the Presidents commission and therefore cannot equate himself with an officer holding the Presidents Commission by merely putting in the same no of years of service. So much for the able leadership of the CPO officer cadre.

SD Sharma said...

WELL SAID WG CDR 20 NOV 08
Dr BP any comments and I hope you have now got your facts you were desperately or do you want more figures of similar facts.Just by claiming superiority and wrongly claiming more P & A for lesser or no work done dont try to malign the AF s , because they are the ones who will ultimately help you tide over your failures in future also. Dread the day when they refuse and or start behaving like CPOs. So much for the leadership of CPOs and your NIYAT and foresightedness about yours, ours and countrys future.

BP Ka B--p said...

Well gentlemen,
Pl do not get annoyed with CPOs.Whenever the terrorists activity increases and Fauj becomes more active in their areas of responsibility,these poor guys get exposed and loose their extra income as well.Thus the anger and frustration.IT HAPPENS.This BP fellow ,instead of doing his duty is wasting everyone's precious time by putting up such shoddy blogs.