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Monday, October 12, 2009

MES AND THE SAD AFFAIRS

BRIEF HISTORY OF MES
Public Works Department was originally created under Army. In 1881, its Military works Branch was segregated leading to creation of Military works Services in 1889. The Army in India Committee in 1921 placed Military Works of Indian Army under QMG.
Subsequently in1923, post of Engineer in Chief was created and The Miners and Engineers, which were earlier under Chief of General Staff, were placed under E-in-C. On 04 Dec 1923 Military Works Department was redesigned as Military Engineer Services (MES) under a Director General of Works (DGW) who was asked to report to E-in-C instead of QMG.
It was clearly mentioned that Army officers posted to MES should be borne on MES establishment and paid on MES rates.
Thereafter, in 1959, DGW again was asked to report to QMG instead of E-in-C. Subsequently, after conflict with China in 1962 when there was large-scale expansion of MES, DGW was again asked to report to E.in.C. Thus DGW (like CPWD) who headed MES was made to report to either QMG or E-in-C at different points of time.
In 1963 a large number civilian Group A officers were recruited through UPSC. E-in-C has been only holding additional charge of MES in addition to his own duties as Head of Corps of Engineers (earlier known as Miners and Sappers). It was at this point of time that E-in-C as head of Corps of engineers started asserting himself to treat MES as an integral part Corps of Engineers.
LTCOL/SE
In order to avoid conflict between Beaurocracy and Army Brass, MOD has been maintaining a safe distance in meeting the aspiration of Civilian Cadres of MES. For example, after a lot of deliberation, a direction was recently issued by MOD, with your kind approval to E-in-C to treat a SE at par with a Colonel (both are having same grade pay of Rs 8700) but the same was withdrawn after few days, as this equation was not acceptable to E-in-C.
Though MOD is well aware of ground situation, yet following are few glaring facts about MES for the information of one and all: -

(A) Quantum of works handled by MES is much higher than handled by CPWD, but a HAG+ level officer heads the later while MES is headed by a HAG level officer having additional charge in addition to his own duties as E-in-C of Indian Army. Presently, MES is having around 1.35 lac personnel out of which 93 % are civilians. There are 1600 group A and 2100 group B civilian officers against about 500 Army officers.

(B) The number of senior level posts held in MES is as under: -
Civilian Officers: HAG 3 SAG 27 (IDSE only)
Army Officers: HAG Nil SAG 4
Army Officers having additional charge: -
HAG 1 SAG 6
In spite of such a large number of senior civilian officers, the distribution of senior Appointments is as follows: -
Army 9 (Central head, 6Command heads, DGW, DG MAP)
Civilian 1 DG (Pers)
Further-more, the two HAG level civilian officers are designated as ADG (ADG D&C and ADG R&D); while the two SAG level Army officers are designated as DG (DGW & DG-MAP).

(C) In spite of DOPT instructions to the contrary, all Civilian HAG officers are being made to report to HAG Army Officer, who is mostly junior to them. Similarly, all Civilian SAG officers are required to repot to junior SAG level Army officer.
(D) Till the year 2000, MES had the dubious distinction, when for 11 years a HAG level Civilian officer was made to serve under a SAG Army officer. Even now in the absence of E-in-C, Civilian HAG Officers are being asked to report to a Maj Gen (SAG) and in the absence of Command Chief Engineer, SAG Civilian officers are made to report to a Brigadier (Principal Director).
(E) AS per MOD order of April 17,2000 all maters dealing with civilian personnel are required to be dealt by DG Pers (a civilian HAG officer) but disciplinary matters and ACRs of civilian officers have been kept under a SAG level Army officer to Keep the hold of Army officers. So much so, preliminary enquiries in matter of discipline of civilian officers are being got through Staff Court of Inquiry ordered under Army Act.
(F) MES functions under Defence Works Procedure in non-operational areas and Engineer units function under OP Works Procedure in operational areas. Thus, there is no security risk if MES is fully civilianized
Since independence there have been several studies on structure of MES without implementation of their recommendations as E-in-C found most of these against the interest of Corps of Engineers
Estimate committee of Lok Sabha under the chairmanship of Smt Sucheta Kriplani carried out the first study on MES in 1957, but its recommendation of complete civilianization was not accepted
Estimates committee of seventh Lok Sabha undertook another study in 1982 that made following important recommendation: -
(1) Senior Army officers posted to MES should have adequate experience in MES at level of AGE/GE.
(2) The committee had observed, and accepted by MOD, that there has been great frustration amongst civilian officers.
(3)The committee had proposed that MOD should have some institutional arrangement to have across the table dialogue with civilian officers.
Fifth Pay Commission
asked for detailed presentation on structure of MES from MOD, but that job was given to E-in-C. After due deliberation the following recommendations were made by the commission: -
(a) Para 33.15 and 33.16
Service personnel from MES should be withdrawn as an economy measure and also to make up deficiency of Army Units.
(b) Para 50.102 and Para 50.103
(i) Civilian HAG level officer be designated as DG and Army Maj Gen be designated as Jt DG
(ii) Head of MES should be a Civilian officer.
(c) Para 50.106
Complete Civilianization of MES be set as a long time objective as is the trend World over.
In order to nullify the recommendation of V CPC, E-in-C prevailed upon COAS who is not in the chain of command of MES, to appoint 30 members committee of Service officers in the year 2000 under GOC-in-C of Central Command.
Fortunately, MOD did not take cognizance of this one sided report but appointed, in the year 2001, a Committee under the chairmanship of Shri V.S.Jafa a retired civil servant. Here, again, one of the two members that was to be appointed by COAS was taken from Corps of Engineers and in turn the committee out sourced the drafting of its report to a retired Maj Gen of Corps of Engineers by inducting him as Chief Adviser
The committee made following recommendation to boost the morale of civilian officers
(1)The procedure for initiating preliminary inquiries for alleged irregularities should be same for Army and civilian officers and must be equable, forthright and unequivocal. MES regulation may be amended to include this provision.
(2)The proportion of higher appointments is tilted in favour of Army officers and distribution of post of Chief Engineer and above between Army and Civilian officers be made in ratio of their number
(3)The committee recommended creation of post of DG (Projects) to be manned by HAG civilian officer. Instead of accepting this recommendation, a post of DG (MAP), that is identical to a DG (Project) was created and handed over to a SAG level army officer.
(4) ACRs of civilian officers should be endorsed only at two levels in MES chain of command to avoid undue pressure from user formations. This recommendation is in line with policy of DOPT but no action has been taken, so far, to implement it because Army officers control section dealing with ACRs of civilian officers.
SIXTH PAY COMMISSION
Now, that the recommendations of VI CPC have been accepted and grade pay has been made the criteria to determine the status and seniority of an officer, the following equivalency is established in MES hierarchy: -
Grade Pay Civilian Level Army Rank
Rs12000 HAG Lt Gen Rs10000 SAG Maj Gen
Rs8900 Addl CE Brig
Rs8700 SE Col.
The issue of grade pay of a Lt Col is still under consideration. As per press reports PMO has issued a direction that it shall be Rs 8000 in PB4 when posted in combat or ready to combat position and Rs 7600 when on deputation in PB3

The fact is that ‘A Committee / MOD proposes and E-in-C disposes’
The above detail report indicate that there is an urgent requirement to check the affairs in MES before it is too late

70 comments:

MES said...

Dear BP,
Well done, a good work done.It indicates Army officers are just after the posts in MES

Anonymous said...

Dear all,
make MES a total civil organisation to weed out the Army flab

Anonymous said...

Dear Sir,
Thanks for raising our issue in your blog. The fact remain that it is allready very late in the day.The situation requires urgent treatement

Anonymous said...

What a crap,
Army officers are doing duty, nothing more nothing less

fouji boot said...

BP,
Please wake up before it is too late

Anonymous said...

Dear BP,
Again you have put your leg on the issue which is not having any relation with your blog.
Can you please write on other items which relates to you and your CPO/CPMF

Anonymous said...

Sir,
Good article on MES and needs to be read by one and all.Our fouji brothers should know that they are not as fair as they pretend to be?

Well Wisher said...

My dear CPMF member and Mr BP Singh Sir,
Let us decide that we should not draw lines among the uniiform forces. It's true that all the uniform services are the least paid and least looked after lot of G.O.I. Among themselves, one may be little better and other may be little worse. That's all. So for God sake, no confrontation among ourselves and off course there should be no comparison too. It's true that probably CPMF are facing a major chunk of the heat of all internal disturbances, be it militancy of J&K, insurgency iof N.E. or LWE. Off course Army too is sharing that. CPMF has no respite, after one hard tenure, some other place is waiting for them for next hard tenure. Absolutely near zero family life. Above all, the CPMF are the least paid lot also. It is true that an Asstt Comdt can get Sr Time Scale of pay in 4 years, that too, if he clears all other norms for becoming a DC. Thereafter, there is no time bound promotions. Their second in command, who litrally command the units average 33% time due to the absence of the commandant, are in PB-3. CRPF officers do not get ration money. Probably, it is not more than 20% of the force, which gets the HRA/CILQ. After 6 CPC, only Rs.700/- as Family accomodation allowance has been autherised to all CPMF personnel irrespective of rank, who do not get HRA/CILQ/Govt Accn. I am of the firm opinion that it was a wrong interpretation of 6 CPC recommendation, which says the F.A.A would be at the "lowest rate of HRA". The lowest rate of HRA is 10% of (B.P +G.P+ NPA). In fact, the FAA has been allowed at the "rate of lowest HRA". Due to the difinition of the word "Headquarter", which holds good for a civilian employee, the CPMF personnel keep moving all over the country without transfer grant. With some other (mis)interpretations, they are deprived of transport allowance. How rediculous it was that the CPMF personnel were not entitled for SDA earlier, despite serving in N.E. physically.
So i think, the CPMF people should put up their grievance the the G.O.I. without any comparison with any other force. I hope that my brethen in services, will at least, not criticise those request, if can't support. I rather expect their open heartyness, if they support it. Let us consider everybody in uniform as one identity, serving to the nation for one cause, to upheld it's soverignity.
Jai Hind
Well Wisher

Anonymous said...

Well BP,
I do agree to some portion of your article that more MES civilian officer should be appointed to higher powerfull posts.Well knowing the working culture of our civilian officer it is better to keep them away. The little work/output of MES we see today is due to Army officers.

MES said...

Anony above,
This exastly is the problem with Army officers, they consider that only they can do the correct ,no body else.
This country is run by civilians thus working otherwise see the state of Pakistan/Bangladesh/Mynmar

fouji boot said...

BP,
you know that MES civilians are fit for nothing .It is the 7 % of military crew on whose strength MES is moving

fouji said...

Dear BP,
Happy Deepavali

Anonymous said...

Thanx BP for enlightening all of us on Army high handedness in MES.They are enjoying Army perks on 9 to 5.0 job which any civ would have handled at half a rate.I am told that they even dont do their duties properly in MES on the pretext that they are meant for fighting war.It is high time that they should be withdrawn to make up deficiency of army officers in Corp.

IDSE said...

Dear BP Sir,

IDSE community is greatly indebted to you for highlighting the issues which we are fighting for since long. You have brought out the history of MES in an excellent manner. Thanks...
In fact today MES is being actually run by civ offrs and our fauji brothers are just enjoying life in a job which they are not meant for. They always take the pretext of inexperience and thus they are given jobs which are generally non technical by the fauji and even civ bosses.

The only solution to this prob is complete civilianisation of MES. The Dept should be renamed as Defence Public Works Dept of Defence Engr Service as we are working for all the depts under MOD. If you ask any formation commander of AF / Navy / DRDO they always prefer civ GEs /CsWE instead of a fauji one due to their inexperience.
Its high time now, the GOI should decide the issue once for all.
Once again thanks a lot!!!!!!!!

IDSE said...

Dear Fauzi boot @oct 14.

The same illusion, the GORE SHAHIB were having during the British rule in India.

IDSE said...

All IDSE Officers thank BP for bringing out the issue in open for our paramilitary brothers to understand, which we have been fighting for last 60 years. The sheer wastage of pubilc money due to entry of army officers in to non combat Civil organisation (while they claimthey are always in shortage of officers), specially at the time of pay commission). The holier than you approach of army towards PMF is well known to be repeated.

The important question is -

1. when they are always in shorage of officers , why they are sending officers to PMF. MES, DRDO GREF etc ?

2. How much public money can be saved, if Army officers are replaced by Civilian officers in organisation like MES, PMF, DRDO ,GREF etc.

3. Why MES. GREF etc has been made dumping ground for superceded army officers, which is affecting professionalism of MES.

4. Why IDSE officers are being made to serve under junior Army Officer ?

5. Why MoD orders are being voilated with imputiny in MES ?

MES said...

Dear BP,
Time has come to weed out Army officers from MES and all other similar organisations.

Anonymous said...

Dear BP Sir,
All civilians of MES are thankfull to you for brining up the suffering of CIVILIAN officers of MES.Infact Army is using CIVIL POSTS TO PROMOTE MILITARY OFFICERS

fouji boot said...

Dear BP,
IDSE officer got one more shoulder to cry but the fact remains that it is the officers from Army due to which MES is still making some fruitful contributions.

Anonymous said...

Dear BPji, your assertion that E-in-C is a HAG officer is incorrect. The Engineer in Chief is 6th CPC on, always in HAG+. I appreciate your essay, but the correct analogy must be drawn for your post to be taken seriously. The E-in-C is a very senior officer, who looks after the works needs of not only the army, but also the Air Force and the Navy.

Furthermore, IDSE is a subordinate cadre, and naturally must report to the E-in-C, who is the head of the department. Precisely like the CPO officers (subordinate cadre), must report to the IPS or the Army.

Lastly, evidence of the fact that you have grown unbalanced in your hatred for the military, is that you have turned your website into a general anti-military forum, airing grievances of services which have nothing to do with you, like the IDSE and the coastguard. Any reason, boss?

Anonymous said...

Your assertion of "Grade Pay" being the criteria for determining seniority, is incorrect, BP Singhji. Grade pay is usable only for inter se seniority within a cadre. Between cadres, the determination of seniority is always by total emoluments. As such, military officers, are at EVERY grade, senior to MES (and for that matter, to your CPO's).

And bad guess on DGW being equivalent to E-in-C. E-in-C is in HAG+, which grade is not available to workers of IDSE. Nor, for that matter, to the personnel of the CPO's. Need any further proof that CPO's are a subordinate cadre?

Armed forces of India are the only service other than the IAS, which has the same salary grade as the cabinet secretary for its chiefs (90,000 fixed). The IPS, your lords and masters also do not attain this grade ever.

Indeed, the immediately previous head of the navy, Adm. Sureesh Mehta, has just been made an ambassador by the government, despite all the yapping by your board against him, and despite the fact that he had the guts and uprightness of character to stand up for his men. When did the last CPO 'officer' receive an ambassadorial or gubernatorial post?

Any further questions, BPji? Compare yourself to services which are comparable. Not to your superiors.

Anonymous said...

Rather, I appreciate the comments of the poster "Well Wisher". By making such antagonistic posts, you are hardening the hearts of the armed forces, which are always there for members of other uniformed services. While we appreciate the concerns of the CPO men, why do you insist on gaining something only at the cost of the armed forces? Your hatred will end up costing both you and your service much goodwill, bpji.

MES said...

Anony above,
Have a heart BP sir is only showing the true face of people like you.
If it the Army which is only correct then see the state of Pakistan/Bangladesh/Mynmar/Other Afrcan Countries

Anonymous said...

Anony @2:42/53/56
Have some power to take views of others,it will make you a good military officer

Anonymous said...

@MES:

The Republic of India has avoided the pathetic state that Pakistan/Sri Lanka/Bangladesh/Myanmar etc are in, precisely because of the existence and professionalism of her armed forces.

Otherwise, what do you think prevents such a disaster here? The so called IAS (mis)-'management' of the services? Dont make me laugh.

The Indian armed forces are committed to protecting this nation and her democracy, and that is what keeps India free, and independent.

By all means, MES, CPO, and whomsoever else, aspire to whatever you like. But dont try and do it at the cost of the armed forces. Have a heart. We exist to protect you after all.

Shun weirdos like BP singh sahab, who seek to create a rift where there are none, because of what is apparently some frustration of his own.

MES said...

Anony above,
View of yours taken and you stand discarded.People like you feel this country can be run by AF officers only.Keep away from civilized world, you are frog of military well and think that world is that small.

rk said...

dear MES and IDSE, if you are serving in military engineering services you have to be under military, if you want a totally civilian org, let it be civilian engineering services , definitely not MES. merge with CPWD and continue your fight there. the bigger problem for indian military is not pakistan but these IDSE and IDAS variety. sorry for such a comparison, but need of the hour is militarisation of MES, wants perks and privileges, wear uniform, be subjected to army/navy/air force acts. the fact of the matter is that no head of unit wants a civilian GE, i've been one and i know it. it is only thanks to those few army officers that MES is still afloat. i have not yet spoken abt corruption coz the lesser said better it is.

GREF said...

@ rk

I hope you are not subjecting your wife and children under Army Act in your home- as after all you ( a military man) are the head of the family and they must display military discipline and conduct if they have to stay with and under a military officer like you. I really feel sorry for your family !

IDSE said...

@ rk

Your supreme Commander is a Civilian. You are serving under a Civilian Defence Minister.You are under Army Act passed by Civilian Parliament. You pay, free ration, free warrants, free booze, come from the taxes paid by Civilians. you were born a civilian you will die as a civilian. Need more proof- Your wife is also a civilian most probably so are your children. You are eating food produced by civilian, you wear clothes produced in civilian factories.Planes and train in which you travel are driven by civilians. Your car is also produced by civilians. Your father and mother were also civilian (most probably!) so were your grand and great grand fathers.You children will also become civilian unless they choose your profession.

MES said...

@ rk

Who about following

-Booze Brigadier
-Catch up Colonel
-Dal General
-Tahelka
-HDW
-Procurement of Golf Carts in the name of forward area reccee vehicles
-procurement of Golf Cart in the name of medical equipments
- Calling Golf Courses - environment park to be fool the govt.
- Using rum as bribe on all occasions

IDSE said...

My Dear RK,

Please dont open a Pandora box here........I will reply to u in a most fauji manner!!!!

Alpha - MES stands for Military Engineer Service and not "engineering"...u will be surprised to know that few of the E-in-C's who have ruled on this department do not know the Correct name of the department. We will be more than
happy to merge with CPWD but its not possible so we should not discuss hypothetical situations.

Bravo - its a prob of govt to deal with offrs (read time scale / written off) who are posted to organisations like MES , DRDO, CQAE, DG MAP, BRO etc....Its IDSE / IDAS and other services who are actually running these deptts and
paying them MSP / free ration/ free accn / sasta bijli paani etc etc..

Charlie - no MES offr has ever asked for perks / privileges of army. We only want our due which is given to other similarly placed offrs in civ organisations. GREF offrs are wearing uniform (as per ur desire) but what they have
got except second class treatment. Thats the reasons very senior offr of BRO was summoned in Hon'ble court..

Delta - the fact of the matter is unit heads / stn cdrs want fauji GEs as they salute them morning to evening. Organise ladies club for MADAMs, change tiles of Madams choice, decorate the office of stn cdr and offr messes where the grt Maam (first lady as called by all of u)is the interior decorator, maintain golf courses, and what not.....

Echo - Most of the fauji GEs are written off for the reasons known to everybody...thats why almost all E-in-cs and command CEs are without any MES exposure... because if they wud have done GE at the young age they wud never have reached to that level.........

so bhaisaheb jio aur jeene do........

Jai Hind

IDSE said...

@ rk

"i've been one and i know it. it is only thanks to those few army officers that MES is still afloat."

Every fool think, his views/ opinion is the the only right view.

IDSE said...

@ GREF
OCTOBER 28, 2009 10:03 PM

That's really witty !!! But it is a sad reality of the civilian family members of such fauzi officers. Who expect that even their wife, children should behave at home like that by johnnies in their units, as if they are under army act !!

fouji boot said...

IDSE/MES,
Service of MES is run by men in uniform.
You all can live and breath because we protect the border.
So please keep your mouth shut we know what quality officers are from IDSE

IDSE said...

@ fauji boot,

aa gaye na apni aukat par!!!!!!1

Anonymous said...

Muft Ki Daaru Ne Dimag Kharab Kar Dia Hai Inka

Anonymous said...

Fifth Central Pay commission recommended long back in 1995 for disbandment of RR and withdrawal of Army from Assam Rifles. It also recommended withdrawal of AF personnel to organisations like the Survey of India, Directorate General of Quality Assurance, Defence Research and Development Organisation, Military Engineering Services, Border Roads Organisation as well as complete Civilianization of Air Force Account Department.

However , due to reasons known to every one in Defence establishment, these vital recommendations of Fifth Central Pay Commission were never implemented; which could have saved the country exchequer thousands of crores of rupees in the last 14 years , which could have been used for developmental purposes.

Time has come to re-visit these recommendations and save taxpayer’s money going down the drain :-

33.15 We find that the Armed Forces have deployed their manpower in several areas not related to their core functions. If the Armed Forces withdraw from such areas, the manpower released can be utilised to meet the reported shortages of officers and men in the three services.

Our specific suggestions in this regard area as under: -

Rashtriya Rifles have been raised by drawing on the regular Cadre of the Army to perform internal security duties. The Armed Forces have represented that their deployment on internal security duties should be minimised. We also feel that the Army should legitimately be kept way from internal security chores. We, therefore, suggest that Rashtriya Rifles should be disbanded and the engaged manpower should revert to the regular cadre of the Army. Similarly, the Army should be completely withdrawn from the Assam Rifles.

The Armed Forces need not divert their manpower to organisations like the Survey of India Directorate General of Quality Assurance, Defence Research and Development Organisation, Military Engineering Services, Border Roads Organisation, etc. There should be a gradual civilianisation of all these organisations and the officers can be used for core functions.

The Air Force is wasting its manpower on accounts jobs. Such jobs can be fully handled by civilians. The Air Force manpower should be withdrawn from such functions.

33.16 Since employment of Civilians is a less costly proposition than that of Combatants, there is a clear case for exploring the possibility of civilianisation of posts in static, rear and administrative support organisations and workshops in the three services. We fell that the Ministry of Defence should set up a committee to review the existing civilian-combatant ratios in different wings of the Armed Forces and Inter-Service Organisations and identify posts for civilianisation. Here, we recommend that, as a governing principle, wherever the existing civilian-combatant ratio is 20 : 80 it should be raised to 50 : 50, where it is 70 : 30 to 80 : 20 and where the civilian component is 100%, the status quo should be maintained.

IDSE said...

The problems of MES and withdrawal of Army officers from non combat duties are not getting solved due to following reasons :-

(a) Officers manning Defence Ministry are weak and don't exercise proper control over E-in-c.

(b) There are a number of examples when E-i-C has not obeyed Ministry of Defence instructions however no action has been taken for enforcement of same.

There are so many anomolies in MES which are not known outside :-

(a) There has been so much fight on the status of Lt Col vis -a -vis Deputy Commandant post. However it will be startling to note that in MES Maj are doing job of BSO which is a Group B gazetted post.

Similarly , Lt Col and Col (TS) are doing job of DCWE B/R, DCWE E/M , SBSO which carry a grade pay of 6600/-.

Re-employed officers who are g having huge cost to the govt. (they get pay of Col while working on group B post of Asst Director) are being posted to MES.

MES said...

Parliament Questions on MES
Unstarred Question 1382: 8 Mar 2000

Discrimination against Civilian officers

1382. Will the Minister of Defence be pleased to state:

(a) whether it is a fact that in MES a civilian officer in the scale of Rs 22400-26400 is designated as Addl. Director General and Army Officer in the scale of Rs 18400-22400 as Director General;

(b) if so, the reason for such discrimination against civilian officers; and

(c) action being taken to reverse the role of two officers as recommended by Fifth Central Pay Commission.?



ANSWER



(a) Yes Sir.

(b) & (c): The matter is under examination in Ministry of Defence.

MES said...

Shri Chuni Lal Choudhary:

Speaker, Sir, the reply given by Hon'ble Minister that whole matter is of administrative management which is being considered in light of 5th CPC recommendations. I would like to ask 2nd supplementary as follows:-

Would the Hon'ble Minister state by what time frame the 5th CPC recommendations would be implemented and by which date?

Shri George Fernandes: Very fast we shall take a decision.

(Atee Shigra ham pura karenge.)

( In English) Shri Pranab Mukherjee : Sir, in fact, I am reiterating the point which the previous questioner has made that the recommendations of the Fifth Pay Commission have been under the consideration of the Government for quite a long period of time. Therefore, can the hon'ble Minister give some broad indication of time-frame and tell this house as to when the Government would be in a position to take the decision?

Shri George Fernandes: I do agree that this matter has been pending for a very long time. I would assure the House that in the shortest possible time, we shall have this done.

Anonymous said...

All MES/GREF/MES,
all crap,if you all can get fouji facilities, go and get it.Half of time you all beg to us for rum bottles every month.

Anonymous said...

Anonymouse above,
As it is you are going to sell these rum bottles in open market if not utilized properly.And the cases are far too many. Wish you a Happy Rum Selling...

MES said...

STATUS OF ARMY OFFICERS

Ex-Army officer chargesheeted
Tribune News Service

New Delhi, November 3
The Central Bureau of Investigation has filed a chargesheet against a retired Indian Army major general and his wife for possessing disproportionate assets to the tune of Rs.3.37 crore.

“The country’s premier investigation agency has filed a chargesheet against Major General (retd) Anand Kumar Kapoor, whose last posting was at Southwestern Command in Jaipur, and his wife Mirdula Kapoor before the special judge in Patiala House Court here on October 26,” a CBI official said.

Kapoor, it was found, had allegedly acquired assets either in his name or in the name his wife - even though she did possess any ostensible source of income - and two children.

According to information, the CBI had registered a case against them in September last, leading to searches at 12 places in Delhi, Gurgaon, Shimla, Jaipur and Mumbai.

Kapoor, during his service of 35 years, had acquired assets that were found “hugely disproportionate” to his known sources of income.

MES said...

FOR INFORMATION OF ONE AND ALL

Restriction on pay plus Deputation (Duty) Allowance

No. 2/22/2008-Estt. (Pay II) OVERNMENT OF INDIA
Ministry of Personnel, Public Grievances & Pensions
Department of Personnel & Training
New Delhi, the 30th November, 2009

OFFICE MEMORANDUM
Subject:- Restriction on pay plus Deputation (Duty) Allowance- regarding.

The undersigned is directed to say that consequent upon acceptance of the recommendations of Sixth Central Pay Commission, the deputation (duty) allowance shall be restricted as under: "Basic pay, from time to time, plus Deputation (Duty) Allowance should not exceed the maximum of the pay band PB-4 (Rs. 67000) plus the grade pay of the post held on deputation subject to the grade pay not exceeding Rs. 10,000. The term 'basic pay' in the revised pay structure means pay drawn in the prescribed pay band plus the applicable grade pay but does not Include any other type of pay like special pay, etc."

2.These orders shall take effect from 1" September, 2008.

3. Insofar as application of these orders to the officers of the Indian Audit and Accounts Department is concerned, these orders issue in consultation with the Comptroller and Auditor General of lndia.

rk said...

dear MES, IDSE, GREF and your likes, your comments show your level of thinking and upbringing as well. one comment and you guys are on to wife, son, mother, father and what not. One of you finds it witty as well, shows your intellectual bankruptcy.

well, whats the point shouting here, if you want to prove yourself, prove it at work, produce quality work and people will start respecting you. show me one bldg which does not leak or seep, show me one place where maintenance is up to the mark, funds are never a problem it is only the problem of funds reaching the right place and not pockets of people.

one of you has noted instances of corruption in army, it is heartening to note that they can still be counted, look at your organisation, no one talks about corruption, because for you guys its a way of life. i've seen enough and im sure you guys must have seen it as well. if it hurts shun the people who indulge in corruption, but then will you shun the entire cadre. friend truth is truth and it hurts as well. calling names and dragging family members wouldnt change that. but i guess im talking to the wrong people, who dont even know how to maintain decorum. so guys thanks a lot we are better off without you guys. just because army is controlling we still have buildings seeping or leaking, left to you guys they would be missing altogether. this is the impression every fauji carries about MES, do something if you can. good bye

MES said...

RK THIS IS YOUR ARMY AFRAID OF PAK/BULLETS ?



Kashmir match: BCCI says Army's apology won't do

The Board of Control for Cricket in India (BCCI) lashed out at the Indian Army on Tuesday, after the Services cricket team forfeited a Ranji Trophy match against Jammu and Kashmir.


Despite an apology from the Services team after angry reactions from the Jammu and Kashmir Cricket Association (JKCA), the BCCI reiterated its ban on the Army's team for this season.


The board said that an apology makes no difference, as the tournament's schedule cannot fit in another match in Srinagar.


Earlier, the Services Sports Control Board (SSCB) had said that they had "apologised to the BCCI for the administrative slip-up in despatch of its team and requested them for fresh dates."


The apology came after BCCI banned Services from this year's Ranji Trophy cricket season, for skipping Tuesday's match in Srinagar citing security reasons.


JKCA chief Farooq Abdullah was livid at the Plate Division match's forfeiture; the Sher-E-Kashmir stadium was hosting a Ranji game after a gap of five years,


Abdullah threatened to take up the matter with the Prime Minister and the Home Minister, saying Services had negated the Government of India's positive assessment of the state's security situation.


Jammu and Kashmir earned four points from this forfeited match and will now take on Haryana from November 10-13.
PLEASE WEAR BANGLES

GREF said...

Fauji will
give rum to get his car cleaned/serviced
give ration to maid to get house cleaned
give canteen items to civilians to get his work done
sends official vehicle for his wife work
play golf purchased from funds of unit
and what not the list will go on

Anonymous said...

@GREF, you forgot one thing, that is give rum to MES to get his house repaired or hand over the house!! guess the list is complete.

Anonymous said...

ANNONYMOUSE ABOVE,
You don't give rum for handing over house but for getting the changed Sofa/furniture accepted. New Sofa issued by MES already sent in unit vehicle to home town. Wish you a very Happy Rum Selling...

Anonymous said...

dear anon above, if i give rum i would know what is it for? if u give you will know. i have told what i give for and u have told what u give/take for. incidentally, the cost of transportation would be double the cost of the third class furniture u guys provide. how i wish you guys start looking after para military and CG also so that BP ji also suffers at your hands, he will never take up cudgels on your behalf.

MES said...

Anony above,
If nobody takes rum now then where these 12 bottles goes every month?
Sold in the market?

Anonymous said...

dear MES, at least read the comment before shooting.

B P SINGH said...

ARMY/GOI EMLOYEES TO LOOK SMART

There is a silent transformation in government offices these days. The faded and often wrinkled work uniforms worn by some government employees are now being replaced by classier corporate workwear, thanks to new cloth sourcing norms by the government’s purchase departments.

The Central Vigilance Commission office, a central regulatory authority, which decides on the rules and regulations for the government’s tendering process, has asked all public sector units, armed forces and state-governed bodies to insist on “composite mills” in their tenders for procuring any kind of textiles. Simply put, only composite mills — a textile facility where weaving,spinning and processing is integrated and done under a single roof — can bid for textile-related tenders.

SKNL is supplier to ONGC, Air India, BPCL and Indian Army. “State-owned mills will benefit since now they will have better quality textiles,
Raghunath MB, a director with Mafatlal Fabrics says the step will help both textile mills and the government.
The Mafatlal group supplies cloth to state-owned firms such as Hindustan Aeronautics, ONGC, BPCL and Airports Authority of India

annoy said...

MES does not desrve anything. shamelessly corrupt, slack n sluggish, pathetic productivity, sub standard quality of job, too beaurocratic and red tape, unapproachable, non cooperative, unaccountable... all these words put in one form is MES organisation. am yet to find one non MES person among jawans and officers who are actually happy with MES. they are more of a pain than of help. According to me, its high time government dismentle MES and implement modern policies like Outsourcing, PPP, BOT etc., Atleast when it comes to residencial building construction and maint of living accommodations, MES should be done away with. my views may sound radical and blunt, but i really don't think any non MES fauji would disagree with my views.

Anonymous said...

How about implementing modern policies like Outsourcing, PPP, BOT for defending our borders, ruling the country (read our politicians), etc..

Whatever annoy (November 9, 2009 8:59 PM) has said is applicable to Indian fauz and netas too............do we outsource them also????

Anonymous said...

dear anony above, pl. go ahead and do it, if you find any takers.

annoy said...

Dear November 9, 2009 9:23 PM. Your statement "Whatever annoy (November 9, 2009 8:59 PM) has said is applicable to Indian fauz and netas too............do we outsource them also???? "

inference i get from your statment is.. it is justified to be a worst organisation if other organisations in the govt are equally worse. this is the basic attitude problem with all government servants. nobody wants to work. why can't you think otherway round and try to work for betterment of your organisation even if other organistions including indian fauj and netas are so called "bad"?

regarding your other statement "How about implementing modern policies like Outsourcing, PPP, BOT for defending our borders, ruling the country (read our politicians), etc.."

Let me educate you basic things.. there are certain organisations which are required to have for a nation for smooth functioning of administration, internal and external security. so we cannot do away with IAS, police, armed forces, politicians in democracy. however there are ways and means to correct these organisation.
Please don't equate MES with these organisations since they don't deserve that kind of repo vis-a-vis their productivity. more over, job which MES doing is not some rocket science. Its just a construction work(predominantly) which any private builder can do it in much cost effective and quick manner. atleast in peace stations MES is not required. for that matter even MES does tendering and offers contractors to private vendors in peace stations. same can be done by millitary head quarters directly without MES.

dear anonymous November 10, 2009 10:21 AM,
In peace stations there will be lot of takers. i throw a stone and private vendors will line up to the job which MES is doing. they do it in a much better way. Its just matter of overcoming the beaurocratic proccdures and influence of MES lobby.

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous November 10, 2009 8:07 PM

Who heads MES by the way ?

A Lt Gen of Indian Army called Engineer-in-Chief of Corps of Engineers, who holds additional charge of MES.

annoy said...

Dear anonymous November 10, 2009 10:59 PM.
It doesn't matter who heads MES. A tiger leading the herd of donkeys or a donkey leading the group of tigers is going to have same output. End of the day what matters is what is the productivity. Even if the leadership is changed to total civilian control, things won't change. Organisation still continues to be unproductive and corrupt.So, better solution is dismentle MES. Mes is not required in peace stations at first place.
Moreover as a person at receiving end(receive services from MES), am not thinking on the lines of who is heading MES and who should head etc., what am looking for is will i get quality bathroom repairs, good house which doesn't leak in monsoons, speedy construction work etc., which MES can never achieve in next 10 generations also.
Worst part of MES is despite knowing the fact that they are screwing up the personal lives of faujis with bad projects and bad services, they are least bothered to do their bit of hard work. so shameless that they don't even do justice to the pay they carry home end of the day.

Anonymous said...

@ Anonymous November 11, 2009 10:02 AM

"It doesn't matter who heads MES. A tiger leading the herd of donkeys or a donkey leading the group of tigers is going to have same output.End of the day what matters is what is the productivity. Even if the leadership is changed to total civilian control, things won't change."

your bias is apprent from your statement. How have you come to conclusion that things won't change, if leadership is changed to total Civilian Control. Are you God and know the future.

I have given you plain facts of 60 years MES leadership entructed to a Army Generals, who have created such a mess. Now time has come that Civilian component is given fair chance to lead the organisation.

"Moreover as a person at receiving end(receive services from MES), am not thinking on the lines of who is heading MES and who should head etc., what am looking for is will i get quality bathroom repairs, good house which doesn't leak in monsoons, speedy construction work etc., which MES can never achieve in next 10 generations also."

Your statements are another foolish exercise in absurdity aimed at defending your brother E-in-C who is your brother in OG. Take for example since india was a developing country in 1980s so it will remain so in next 10 generations also.

"Worst part of MES is despite knowing the fact that they are screwing up the personal lives of faujis with bad projects and bad services, they are least bothered to do their bit of hard work. so shameless that they don't even do justice to the pay they carry home end of the day."

I hope a Lt Gen of Indian Army and 9 Major Generals, countless brigradiers and lesser brasses who are occupying key positions in MES are included in your "They".

Anonymous said...

dear anony above, MES is afloat is bcoz of these people in OG (im not one of them), left to you guys it would have marooned long back. also as of now we have houses seeping, left to you guys they would be altogether missing. State PWDs, CPWD are there for people to see. be sure 50 yrs down the line also you guys would be wasting your time with all these talks. why dont u guys start producing quality work so that services have faith in you.

Anonymous said...

@ anonymous
November 11, 2009 8:24 PM

Shallowness of your knowledge are evident from your statement that MES is afloat because of OGs. What about Railways, P & T , Metro Rail, Kokarn Railway, govt. of India, Politicians, IITs, Universities, School and colleges- are they also afloat because of OGs.

Now I don't want to waste my further time in advising thick headed dolts like you. You be happy and die with with the burdens of OGs in your dull mind.

annoy said...

@Anonymus November 11, 2009 5:47 PM

Your statement "your bias is apprent from your statement. How have you come to conclusion that things won't change, if leadership is changed to total Civilian Control. Are you God and know the future"

Obviously things won't change. There are lot of organisations which are under total civilian control like state PWDs, CPWD, all PSU's etc., Entire nation knows what are they upto.
As you think, am not biased. Am free of all prejudice because i hate both unformed and non-uniformed people of MES equally. With present leadership also its bad and with civialian leadership also its going to be bad. Thank you stars you are not yet under the scanner of RTI activists. The day they dwell into your accounts and books, you will not have place to hide.

I can read your mentality from whatever you wrote. Rather than accepting the flaws of your system and trying to improve, you want to shift focus by opening an argument that other organisations are worse than you. If you have a will to improve things, you can do so by all means atleast within your spheare of influence(men you command and tasks assigned to you)irrespective of leadership above above you.

I had occassions earlier when i ran around MES for two months for simple requirements like tube light repairs, geyser repair, furniture replacement etc., Just to look after my simple and legitimate requirements like this, you need change of leadership? otherwise you will not work?

Most of the members of this blog would have come across bad experiences(babugiri, retapism, arrogance of lower level staff etc.,) when you would have visited railway offices, govt hospitals, Local muncipal offices for the issues related to own house etc., Do you like such response by govt officials who owe you some duty? I get exactly same treatment when i visit MES. You need change of leadership for becoming bit courteous to a fellow human being? Afterall am not a pakistani to deserve such respons...!

Therefore, it would be wise of govt to totally dismentle MES so that you will not have problems of parity and protocol, i will not have problems of bad accommodations...

annoy said...

Hello @Anonymus November 11, 2009 5:47 PM
where have you vanished? No answers for my comments on November 11, 2009 11:10 PM? is it because you accepted the ground realities w.r.t problems of your customers?
No hard fealings friend... i just spoke my hearts out opinion. This is just a forum to exchange views of each other... Lets not get offended over the discussion which practcally leads to no where :-)

Anonymous said...

Thursday, November 19, 2009
Performance of Pension Fund Managers - New Pension Scheme

Performance of Pension Fund Managers, managing funds of Government Employees,was reviewed by the New Pension System Trust (NPST). The weighted average return as on 30/09/09, as reported by the Pension Fund Managers (un-audited figures),is as under:- Weighted Average Return as on 30/09/09 (MTM Basis)

Name of Company ------------------Return%

LIC Pension Fund Ltd. ------------10.57 (29%)

SBI Pension Fund Pvt. Ltd. -------13.41 (40%)

UTI Retirement Solution Ltd. -----12.73 (31%)

Weighted Average Return 12.3756%

Anonymous said...

Property Headlines

Property Registration To Be At Flat 1% In Maharashtra
Revenue department has approved a proposal to levy a flat one per cent charge on property registrations. Revenue minister of Maharashtra, Mr. Narayan Rane lifted a stay on an earlier order of the government. As per the new order, if the ready-reckoner value of a property according to the government is Rs 1 crore (Rs 10 million), the registration fee to be paid will be Rs 100,000.

Anonymous said...

kdp,mdl tu mannana nahin hega.

Anonymous said...

It is apparent that senior civilian cadre either not willing to take the responsibility to head the crowd or is totally incompetent and happy to serve as a slave under Army officers, may be due to their grooming, else it is just six months job. Just disregard the unlawful orders of Army bosses be it establishment or corruption related.

abhay k mishra said...

Dear BP Sir,
The situation is critical! Some civilized man sitting in high civilian post and behaving in civilized way only can remedy the situation. Others of afraid of Fauji Dictators!
MES gun

Anonymous said...

Mere pyare bhaiyo chahe naukri kisiki bhi ho fauji ki ho Mes vaalo ye depend karta location to location ki kon kitna kaam karta hai.....and haan fauji lyf sif J&K ya east mai kuch states mai hi tough baaki jagha to fauji bhi apni salary deserve nai karte......haan kuch location par unka kaam tough hai but ek baat ek bhai bol raha hai ki vo MES ko protect karte hai but vo ye na bhule ki Unhe or unki family ko MES protect karti hai.....Electrical issue MES solve kartihai naa ki Army...Water issue bhi and other choti moti zarurte bhi...and haan kuch Department hai jo Apni salary ke according kaam nai karte but kuch Department hai jab fauji sota hai to vo jaag kar duty dete hai raat ko for e.g electricity Department.......Jsb Jang lagti hai tabhi fauji ko dikat hoti hai...nai to salary to sone ki and 8 ghante ki duty ki milti hai........